collectSPACE: Messages - Reply to Topic

Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Forum:	Hardware & Flown Items
Topic:	Congress ruling on astronauts' rights to artifacts

Want to register?

Who Can Post?	Any registered users may post a reply.
About Registration	You must be registered in order to post a topic or reply in this forum.
Your UserName:
Your Password:	Forget your password?
Your Reply: HTML is ON UBB Code is ON Smilies Legend	[QUOTE]Originally posted by cycleroadie: [B]That's great news for the astronauts! And that's the way it should have been all along, too bad NASA didn't see it this way and Congress had to step in.[/B][/QUOTE]
Options	Disable Smilies in This Post. Show Signature: include your profile signature. Only registered users may have signatures.
*If HTML and/or UBB Code are enabled, this means you can use HTML and/or UBB Code in your message.

If you have previously registered, but forgotten your password, click here.

<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="600"><TR><td bgcolor="#000000"><TABLE BORDER=0 cellpadding=4 border=0 cellspacing=1 WIDTH="100%"><TR bgcolor="#660000"><TD COLSPAN=2><CENTER>T O P I C     R E V I E W</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>Robert Pearlman</TD><TD>U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science, Space and Technology <BLOCKQUOTE>Full Committee Markup of H.R. 4158 2318 Rayburn HOB Washington, DC 20515 | Aug 2, 2012 9:30am<div align="justify">The Committee will meet to consider the following measure, or for other purposes:<A HREF="http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.112hr4158" TARGET=_blank>H.R. 4158</A> - To confirm full ownership rights for certain United States astronauts to artifacts from the astronauts' space missions</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Full text of H.R. 4158: <BLOCKQUOTE><div align="justify">To confirm full ownership rights for certain United States astronauts to artifacts from the astronauts' space missions. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,Section 1. Definition Of Artifact.For purposes of this Act, the term `artifact' means, with respect to an astronaut described in section 2(a), any expendable item utilized in missions for the Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo programs through the completion of the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project not expressly required to be returned to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration at the completion of the mission and other expendable, disposable, or personal-use items utilized by such astronaut during participation in any such program. The term includes personal logs, checklists, flight manuals, prototype and proof test articles used in training, and disposable flight hardware salvaged from jettisoned lunar modules. The term does not include lunar rocks and other lunar material.Sec. 2. Full Ownership Of Artifacts.(a) In General- A United States astronaut who participated in any of the Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo programs through the completion of the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, who received an artifact during his participation in any such program, shall have full ownership of and clear title to such artifact.(b) No Federal Government Claim- The Federal Government shall have no claim or right to ownership, control, or use of any artifact in possession of an astronaut as described in subsection (a) or any such artifact that was subsequently transferred, sold, or assigned to a third party by an astronaut described in subsection (a).</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Editor's note: For the history, discussion and debate over the events that led to this legislation, please see: <A HREF="http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/001002.html">NASA inquiry halts sale of astronauts' artifacts</A>. Please limit discussion within this topic to the legislation itself.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>cycleroadie</TD><TD>That's great news for the astronauts! And that's the way it should have been all along, too bad NASA didn't see it this way and Congress had to step in.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>garymilgrom</TD><TD>This is good news for both astronauts and collectors. The terms disposable flight hardware salvaged from jettisoned lunar modules seem to directly address Ed Mitchell's DAC camera situation.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>Robert Pearlman</TD><TD>To be clear, the bill applies to artifacts like the DAC camera, but not the camera itself. Mitchell reached a legal settlement with the government in that case, and by itself, this bill would not overturn that agreement.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>David Carey</TD><TD>Excellent progress and thank you for the update Robert. I've written my congressman, who happens to be a co-sponsor on the bill, and encouraged enactment of the measure for all the reasons discussed on cS.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>chet</TD><TD>Passage would be nice; hope this doesn't just wind up as some rider or amendment to a bill that gets scrapped. </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>SpaceAholic</TD><TD>I still think inclusion of qualifier terms "Expendable" and "Disposable" in the bill are problematic; the affiliated definition excludes a great deal of flown CM hardware which has made its way into collectors hands.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>Robert Pearlman</TD><TD>There is word tonight that the full committee markup planned for Thursday (Aug. 2) may be postponed until after Congress returns from recess in September. Will update if/when the House of Representatives revises their schedule.Update: The markup has now been officially <A HREF="http://science.house.gov/markup/full-committee-markup-hr-4158" TARGET=_blank>postponed</A>.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>chet</TD><TD>Amazing that such legislation is necessary at all. (Technically it isn't necessary, but clarification sometimes is when reasonableness is in short supply).Of course (and as Scott has pointed out), the language of the bill, as currently worded, could still allow actions by bureaucrats like those that led to the call for something to be done in the first place. If the wording isn't cleaned up before passage (if it ever happens), we could wind up right back at square one after the dust settles. </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>music_space</TD><TD>Speaking of dust, could Bean and others still be litigated for dust-embedded items?</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>chet</TD><TD>Certainly not in Bean's case. Lunar dust embedded in items where title is clear aren't subject to "recapture", and Bean's ownership of his uniform's patches isn't disputed.But even more, the dust from those patches isn't even really retrievable (unless the Government wants to try to repossess the paintings with the embedded dust - and that seems a step too far, even for them).</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>Robert Pearlman</TD><TD>The House of Representatives <A HREF="http://majorityleader.gov/Floor/" TARGET=_blank>will vote</A> later today (Sept. 19) on H.R. 4158 under suspension of the rules. <BLOCKQUOTE>Bills brought up under suspension of the rules are referred to as "suspensions." The purpose of considering bills under suspension is to dispose of non-controversial measures expeditiously.</BLOCKQUOTE> The bill is expected to pass the House with broad bipartisan support. To become law, it must also pass the Senate.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>SpaceAholic</TD><TD>And secure the president's signature.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>SpaceAholic</TD><TD>The House of Representatives <A HREF="http://science.house.gov/press-release/house-passes-bill-clarify-astronaut-ownership-mementos-apollo-era-space-missions" TARGET=_blank>passed H.R. 4158</A> today (Sept. 19) <BLOCKQUOTE>House Passes Bill to Clarify Astronaut Ownership of Mementos from Apollo-Era Space Missions<div align="justify">The House of Representatives today unanimously approved H.R. 4158, a bipartisan bill introduced by Science, Space, and Technology Committee Chairman Ralph Hall (R-TX) to confirm full ownership rights to artifacts received by Apollo-era astronauts from their space missions.Describing the bill, Chairman Hall said, "This bill seeks to eliminate any further ambiguity about Apollo-era artifacts that were received by the astronauts. It simply says that astronauts who flew through the end of the Apollo program will be granted full right of ownership of any artifacts received from their missions.""These men are heroes," Hall continued. "They took extraordinary risks to establish American preeminence in space, and by doing so helped our country become a world leader. I think it is a miscarriage of justice that today NASA should seek return of these very same mementos and keepsakes."<center><iframe width="400" height="300" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H3v2l0Gh0CY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Throughout the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs, NASA managers routinely allowed astronauts, at the conclusion of a mission, to keep mementos, pieces of hardware, and personal equipment from the spacecraft. However, beginning in the mid-2000s, NASA began to challenge the ownership of these artifacts by Apollo-era astronauts. As a result, rightful ownership of artifacts has been brought into question, exposing astronauts to possible damages if ownership is not clearly established.

H.R. 4158 confirms full ownership rights of these mementos, but specifically excludes lunar rocks and material. The bill was introduced by Chairman Hall and Ranking Member Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX), along with 33 bipartisan cosponsors, including 25 Members of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology.

Leon Ford

The Senate passed the bill this morning at 3:45 a.m. It's now up to the President to sign the bill or not.

Robert Pearlman

President Obama signed this legislation into law on Tuesday (Sept. 25). Article to come...

rjurek349

As a collector of space flown artifacts, sourced from many of the astronauts' collections, I applaud the signing of the bill! Congratulations to ALL the people who worked so hard behind the scenes, from collectors to astronauts to the ASF, to get this done. It was no small task, and achieved in an amazing amount of time. My deepest gratitude to all involved. Way to go!

Robert Pearlman

collectSPACE

New law says astronauts can keep (or sell) their space artifacts
America's early space pioneers and moon voyagers have now been confirmed as the legal owners of the equipment and spacecraft parts they saved as souvenirs from their missions.
President Barack Obama on Tuesday (Sept. 25) signed a bill into law granting NASA's Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo crew members "full ownership rights" to the artifacts they received and retained more than 40 years ago.

Rick Mulheirn

Would the new legislation allow Dr. Mitchell to ask for the return of the DAC camera that was prompted much of the debate?

Robert Pearlman

As noted earlier in this thread, I don't believe so, given that he had reached a settlement with the government before the legislation was introduced. I believe he would need to return to the courts to overturn the settlement.

New laws, unless specifically stated, are generally not retroactive in their actions.

YankeeClipper

Full-time score:

Astronauts 1 NASA Counsel 0

I'm sure Neil Armstrong's passing in late August helped focus minds to do the right thing, and quickly.

I doubt, though, there will be any retractions or apologies to Ed Mitchell for the derogatory comments some people made on some online news reports regarding his camera.

Robert Pearlman

As a follow-up, I asked NASA about Mitchell and the DAC camera. They confirmed: the law is not retroactive and the camera is now the property of the Smithsonian.

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts